Curse

Ristaron · Jul 18, 2005, 06:28 PM // 18:28

/signed

My first 50k was made practically on one character. Since then I've only been able to get up to 90k with three.

Nerf = bad

Ban the bots, not the only way to afford the better armour.
Seriously, it's no longer worth it. I could go outfit my monk in 15k armour now, but then what? I'll be stuck with 5k or so in the vault, have little to fall back on if my drops don't sell. NPCs don't pay worth @#$t, the Gold Fiery Ram's Hammer of Defence which I could sell for 5k to someone in Lion's arch is worth only 128 at the merchant.
And I am not about to start running desperate 12 year olds to a nearby town for a few hundred gold. I am gonna start running people to Droknar's soon, but seriously, if you keep nerfing, who's gonna have the money to pay me for the trip?

Thomasuwoo · Jul 18, 2005, 06:28 PM // 18:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ba Ne

This is an easy one:

Solo: 100% of the profit : 100% time spent
2 players: 50% profit : 200% time to reach solo profits
3 players: 33% profit : 300% time
4 players: 25% profit : 400% time
etc, etc...

(give or take the randomness of it all of course)

The point is to maximize income in the minimum amount of time. No farmer looking to make a quick buck would farm in any other way than solo. It's counterproductive to add people to the group and when you do it becomes adventuring, not farming. Most likely this is why the group-farming threads are being ignored.

---

At presnt killing monsters with 8 people yeilds similar loot to farming solo (Though the group is farming in a much higher area.) I'm well awear that the point is to maximise profit. The problem is that making it easy for one player to get alot of gold quickly on his own will result in masses of gold being put into the community and the non-farmers won't be able to barter for items. Also with more players higher lvl monsters can be farmed. They drop more loot then their lower level counterparts. It's not as black and white as "less players = more loot" anymore.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ba Ne

The economy: Say no one farmed. Ever. Someone comes across a max damage +15% > 50% health fellblade. This is the only one that's dropped on the server in a month. You'd pay through the nose for that. Your maxed out bank account couldn't afford it.

Add farmers. 15 of the fellblades are dropped on the server in a week. Now you'll pay significantly less for that sword than before which helps the economy with the lower prices. Perhaps still through the nose, but only from one nostril this time.

The problem with both of these scenarios, and the point of the thread, is that the means to obtain the funds to buy that sword, or find it yourself, have been greatly reduced from times past. With the current situation most couldn't afford that sword if 100 a day dropped on the server, plus there's less of them dropping. Hell, I'm a farmer and I can't afford that sword.

Players stay poor, item prices skyrocket. Lose lose situation. Increase the drops, players make some coin, item prices go down and everyone benefits.

Obviously you're not familiar with economics and inflation. Under the old system prices will remain high and continue to rise. Ever wonder why the currency in Doiablo 2 is the soj and not gold? because gold is so common it has almost no value. If only one such fellblade was droped and the buyer asked more then anyone could afford then he couldn't sell it! He'd be forced to drop the price of the sword or just hold onto it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ba Ne

The community: Bring back the drops and less people will farm. Less people farming means more people playing. More people playing means a better community.

Some people, like me, farm because they find enjoyment in it in any number of ways. Some players farm because they feel they have to. They can't afford armor or a rune or whatever it is they want (and sometimes need) with the current drop situation so they turn to farming. You'd better believe that those farming because they feel they have to would stop in an instant if they could make some decent coin doing quests and missions.

All of that ^ IMHO.

Enjoyment in a number of ways? Seems to me the thing that gives you enjoyment is making a quick easy buck. Otherwise this petition wouldn't exsist.

I do like your idea of missions and quests yeilding more gold though. But then I suppose people would farm these too.

Gladestrider · Jul 18, 2005, 06:29 PM // 18:29

/sign-petition

raven214 · Jul 18, 2005, 06:31 PM // 18:31

/signed

I was never much for farming until recently.... not 24/7 but just something reasonable -- after beating the game, I worked myself numb to get a set of 15k armor. Now I'd like to get black dye for it, but just yesterday the price was around 13k!!!! I remember when it used to be around 4-5k (and I thought that was outrageous at the time

). With things in their current state, I think I might burn out on this game before I get the 50k+ just to buy a few vials of dye.

At last check it was around 9k..... 9k for all of one one-time-use vial of black dye?!

Ristaron · Jul 18, 2005, 06:35 PM // 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomasuwoo

At presnt killing monsters with 8 people yeilds similar loot to farming solo (Though the group is farming in a much higher area.) I'm well awear that the point is to maximise profit. The problem is that making it easy for one player to get alot of gold quickly on his own will result in masses of gold being put into the community and the non-farmers won't be able to barter for items. Also with more players higher lvl monsters can be farmed. They drop more loot then their lower level counterparts. It's not as black and white as "less players = more loot" anymore.

Obviously you're not familiar with economics and inflation. Under the old system prices will remain high and continue to rise. Ever wonder why the currency in Doiablo 2 is the soj and not gold? because gold is so common it has almost no value. If only one such fellblade was droped and the buyer asked more then anyone could afford then he couldn't sell it! He'd be forced to drop the price of the sword or just hold onto it.

Enjoyment in a number of ways? Seems to me the thing that gives you enjoyment is making a quick easy buck. Otherwise this petition wouldn't exsist.

I do like your idea of missions and quests yeilding more gold though. But then I suppose people would farm these too.

You missed the point. If people have more gold, there is less need to farm. By increasing drops or making missions yield more wealth, people wouldn't have to farm.
Sure, after a while, the value of gold may drop a little because everyone has so much of it. Around that time people will start buying Eternal Armour, and the value of gold for them will go up.
By that time, the expansion pack will be out, and likely mandatory.

Yen-lo-wang · Jul 18, 2005, 06:47 PM // 18:47

/signed

Quote:

Originally Posted by PieXags

...What're you talking about?

Everyone here is a "farmer" if even if a subtle sense, I'm not a mass 24/7 farming nerd but I do it when I need some money...and I can't even do that.

I sure as HELL would farm if the drops were increased, and then maybe I'd actually have enough money to do something!

Totally agreed there. Right now I'm about flat broke because I had to contribute 85% or so of my funds (just under 17k at that point) last night so my guild could buy a Celestial Sigil, forgetting that I had arranged to buy a Chaos Axe from another player, who popped on last night and demanded we make the transaction then and there. When all was said and done, I was under 1k. So I popped over to the farming spot I'd used a few weeks ago to build up funds, where I had been making 3k per run, which for me took a bit over an hour (I know, I'm slow. Sue me). Cleared the area to my usual extent (ignoring two large mobs that I could never quite crack before)... and had 500 gold worth of stuff. MAYBE.

My only old farming method that I can still use decently is Charr Hide Farming (you all probably know the spots), which while Hides drop a bit more often now for some reason, the sell value of both them and fur squares (to traders for the squares anyways) has plummeted. Where I could get 2k an hour or so doing that, I pulled 2k in three hours doing it last night...

Omega Complex · Jul 18, 2005, 07:19 PM // 19:19

/signed

With the new update, they nerfed even more. In my opinion, the trading interface can wait. Ban the botters, give us our gold. I cant even buy decent armor anymore because I cant get enough gold. I'm not a PvP'er just yet, and I cant raise that kind of cash. Give me my drops that I can salvage for material for armor, give me back my gold so that I can craft it. I dont want to have to spend all my time trying to make money. I'd like to just play the game.

Dipset508 · Jul 18, 2005, 11:13 PM // 23:13

/sighned

They need to give us a break, we find a spot, and then it gets nerfed next day. Plus I have a goal for getting FoW armor. Impossible with all the nerfing.

Borak Bloodbane · Jul 18, 2005, 11:42 PM // 23:42

I dont mean to flame you guys i was just wondering as i read few the first few pages of these posts and i was thinking to myself..how do you guys not make enough money to buy stuff? Not to brag but it seems like when i take my monk outside of elonas in about half an hour i can make about 5k. That isnt great, but it isnt nearly as bad as most of you claim you make. Granted most of you probably havent made it very far in the game and yes, up until you get to the dessert most things you find are crap. But for those that have been far in the game i ask you why is it so hard for you to get yourself a solo build and go fight lvl 21 sand drakes for 120xp a pop and kill 5 or so of them w/in 15 seconds? Also, for those that say they get 3 drops when going through a zone i say wtf? Cuz i will spend 3 hours outside elonas reach and i will get a drop on 80 percent of the sand drakes i kill. And probably 5 percent of the stuff that drops is gold and about 60 percent is either blue or purple so it seems easy imo to make money while getting your refund points back very quickly(2 sand drakes = 1 refund point). I know many of you may not have a primary monk that can solo sand drakes but if you dont then i advise you to research your skills and go out and try to solo these drakes. Also, I dont remember it being too long ago that people were complaining about farming???? Hopefully these arent the same people, which they probably arent, but then next thing you knwo they will be petitioning right back. So what happens? Well i have no real answer except for you to just enjoy what lay ahead for you and if you dont like what you are seeing just quit playing, there are many games out there that may have what you are looking for. The people at Arena.net are probably very smart people and i am sure that they saw this kind of forum post coming, but surely deep down in their dungeons they have a reason for doing what they do and it is probably beyond yours or my comprehension. Perhaps there are more people that favor the nerfing than oppose it? w/e happens i am sure they they are doing what is best for the majority. You cant please everyone.

You all take care, oh by the way when you come here to flame my post i will let you know that i have armor that is 100 percent resistant to elemental dmg that i recieved from the Korean server(y do you think they are so good?)

Thanas · Jul 19, 2005, 12:06 AM // 00:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by PieXags

You don't have any idea what I expected so I don't want to hear anymore of that filth again buddy. I expected exactly what the developers said this game would be, and it met their statements pretty much to the dot when I bought it and when it was released, and back then, we had farming

You see, I honestly don't give a DAMN about the fissure armor, or the 15k armor, or even having the greatest weapons. Want to know why? I've already got what I want in that regard. I do know, however, that drops have significantly decreased since that point in time and continue to do so as the game is updated. I also know that most of these nerfs aren't mentioned in the updates.

So now you're problably wondering why I care at all about farming.

It's because it USED to be in the game, and they took it away, despite the fact that how it was, even 3 weeks ago, was not harming anything. Decreasing drops doesn't affect bots nearly as much as it pisses off the rest of us who enjoyed going out and having something to do once the game was over. We HAD a good farming/drop thing going in the game, that wasn't inflating the prices anymore (surely less) than they're being inflated right now, but they've been decreased anyway. PvP players enjoy doing PvP over and over again while getting faction, some PvE players enjoy farming over and over again while getting loot. Just a shame they took that away from many of us 'eh?

First things first, the post was not aimed at you. This post was aimed at the vast majority of people who farm for items and who claim skills are boring. This sort of comment confuses me greatly since the skill system is central to the game. These people seem very confused as to the nature of this game.

Secondly IMHO the game was never meant to be about farming! If you farmed early game before spots were nerfed it doesn't mean these areas were intentional and aimed at farmers. What it does mean is that these areas were overlooked as being problem areas. And yes farming areas are problem areas because the vast majority of people farm for profit, and this ruins the economy and moves people away from the core of the game which is the skills. Theres also another name for farming when you farm for huge profit and thats called exploiting. This is because there are consequences of farming in the game and this is to unbalance the game to the point where non famers cannot trade and this reduces the enjoyment of others. Please read the EULA, codes of conduct.

Thirdly you say you don't care about items, yet contridict yourself in talking about loot. There are few things I have to say before I go any further. Firstly have you really finsished the game? Have you delved into all possible skill combinations. Have you partied in every different permutation of party. Are you always helping people new to the game? Secondly your fissure amour etc is meant to be very difficult to get hold of. However being a farmer can be quite lucrative, so I expect that without this pastoral profession you would have struggled to buy this. Thus in some respects you've put yourself in this situation. You're meant to work towards buying these items, but slowly. Rushing to get it has left you with very little to aim towards. Thirdly why not play PvP, after all this game is part PvE and part PvP. I never understand those who will only abide by one or the other. Finally why make all the easter eggs item based, this isn't the main fous of the game after all.

I find farming removes the party ethic within the game also. Since most people "solo" to get the best chance of aquring a drop. Also characters tend to lend themselvs to a specific skill set in order to act effectively whilst farming, with no change. This in effect mocks the game attempts at trying to involve a skill system.

So please get over farming. It's done and dusted. You'll be getting 2 new areas soon and before you know it the add on will be in shops. So don't complain. The game is without monthy fee as you recall.

Divine Elemental · Jul 19, 2005, 12:27 AM // 00:27

/signed

Too much Nerfing Will Just Move The Economy, Which Will Hurt Me
And Signed
Amen

balmung · Jul 19, 2005, 12:34 AM // 00:34

/signed

Honestly too many posts, I tried to read them all and got bored. Basically the one problem with nerfing something is that the people who took advantage of it to begin with are only going to get richer, because now all those items that should have been hard to find, are now hard again. So they can make alot of money off of it now because they already got a lot of them easily.

The richer just keep getting richer, not that I am poor, it just isn't fair.

hidden_agenda · Jul 19, 2005, 12:38 AM // 00:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thanas

First things first, the post was not aimed at you. This post was aimed at the vast majority of people who farm for items and who claim skills are boring. This sort of comment confuses me greatly since the skill system is central to the game. These people seem very confused as to the nature of this game.

Okay, I had my posts before and I wasn't gonna say anything more until the above....

What do you mean "'claim' skills are boring"? And what do you mean "these people seem very confused"? Everyone is entitled to his/her perspective. To you -- you like skills, that is fine. I have no problem with that. I won't call you confused. But clearly that courtesy is NOT being returned.

I can argue just as well that the nature of the game is: "An online fantasy world with great graphics to immerse you in it so you are entertained." That the nature of the game is not "try out the maximum number of combination of skills that you possibly could."

I can also argue that if you disagree with the above, then you must be confused. But I won't say that -- as I believe you aren't confused, you simply are interested in diff things. And that is kewl -- I am down with that...

Now you can say you don't like farming -- you are entitled to your opinion. However, for many others, they DO. They are as entitled to their opinion as you are. They also paid as much money as you -- if Anet wants to continue as a business, they'd do well to pay attention to every major group.

Whether you like it or not, people who do a bit of farming is a big part of the game -- just look at the number of people who have loads of stuff to sell. So they should have a voice and a thread to petition for what they want.

Now, this is a petition thread to undo some of the nerf'ing done to farming. You have voiced your opinion already. I would say, if you really are against this, go start a petition to continue to do more nerf'ing of farming. If you gather more signatures than this thread, A.net is likely to lean toward listening to you anyways.

Otherwise, you are basically just here trying to suppress the opinion of those that disagree with you.

no_hands · Jul 19, 2005, 12:58 AM // 00:58

I've said it once and I'll say it again, the economy will settle. For those of you worried about the price of black dye or the guild hall sigil etc at the moment, hold off on the purchase for a few weeks and you should find it drops considerably. Reason: Those of us that currently have over 100 platinum will quickly spend their money on the pruchases they want and you will find that the majority of players end up with the same amount of cash.
Yes, at the moment some swords are sold for over 100K, but over the next few weeks fewer and fewer players will be able to afford this and they will need to be sold for less!
I had some guy two nights ago almost giving away 3 max armour shields because he hadn't been able to sell them all day and they were taking too much room in his inventory. You should also know he found all of them that morning.
I'm not saying not to farm, I'm just saying that this will be for the better once things settle. The only major impact will be the 15K armour - this will be more difficult to purchase. However player to player sells will definitely reduce in price as more of us will be considered "wealthy" when we have 20K, not 200K.

Gwenhywar · Jul 19, 2005, 02:55 AM // 02:55

*signs*

Taking away player's ability to generate money will only increase the profits for the botters/ebayers, and turn the honest players who don't want to resort to buying their ingame gold away from the game ... it's so odd that ANet doesn't realize that.

The amount of GW gold on sale on ebay is astonishing ... I got curious and checked the sale records for a couple of those sellers - it seems they even have buyers that have bought 500 plat multiple times ... is that what ANet wants to achieve?!

Another thing - why do you put collectors in the game, when the items they ask for almost never drop from critters anymore?! I killed countless minos today in search for horns - nada, had to buy them from people.

TheGreatBoo · Jul 19, 2005, 03:11 AM // 03:11

/signed
This is ridiculous. A few weeks ago I would average 1 gold drop a day, just normally playing without farming. Now even if I do try to farm, I find it hard to find a gold drop. Instead of making the drops suck completely and lessening them, ban the botters and increase the difficulty of the monsters.

Niahmas · Jul 19, 2005, 03:33 AM // 03:33

/signed

Fissure armor IS NOT cheap. I can't get the materials and gold needed with selling things to the merchants.

Recently, I found this spot a bit too late. Dune Burrowers in the first area elona reach mission, dropped a ton of gold items. Now in the past two days I've done the route maybe 15 times, and there are 9 burrowers in the area. Thats 135 dune burrowers. I've gotten maybe three purple items, which arn't even that good. If I could buy the fissure armor with Dune Burrower Jaws I'd be set, but I cant

velvetbunny · Jul 19, 2005, 04:05 AM // 04:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niahmas

/signed

Fissure armor IS NOT cheap. I can't get the materials and gold needed with selling things to the merchants.

Recently, I found this spot a bit too late. Dune Burrowers in the first area elona reach mission, dropped a ton of gold items. Now in the past two days I've done the route maybe 15 times, and there are 9 burrowers in the area. Thats 135 dune burrowers. I've gotten maybe three purple items, which arn't even that good. If I could buy the fissure armor with Dune Burrower Jaws I'd be set, but I cant

IT'S NOT SUPPOSE TO BE CHEAP OR EASY TO GET. The sole purpose of Fissure Armor is a money sink for hardcore PvE people to have something to grind away to achieve. It is NO better then the armor you can obtain for a measly 1.5k. You are not entitle to this armor, you do not need or require this armor, it gives you no benefits. You people need to stop whining that its so hard to get money, if you want money, its still relatively easy to farm for, you just need to put some damn effort into it.

SOT · Jul 19, 2005, 04:06 AM // 04:06

Nerfing happens because of people exploiting the good graces of Anet and their dev team on game mechanics of their revolutionary game. Now everyone is whining on both sides of the fence.

Human nature strikes again

Gedscho · Jul 19, 2005, 04:20 AM // 04:20

for me, real "farming" starts, when you put toghether so many enemies, that you nearly die, but then kill them all at once. the closer you get to "i cannot outheal this freakin much damage" the better.

you might say "big deal, works only against one class of enemies", and id say true, but it STILL a form of art, somehow.
sure, not very useful, but i lets you think and learn something about the game mechanics. and when you manage to kill 50 level24 griffons at once,
you should be

REWARDED.

thank you.